'Designer' Babies.

Well, I agreed with a lot of that. Most of it except for the Nazi thing. Again with the Nazis, Glen. No more Nazis!

I agree that a society that allows this may be one that focuses too much on appearances, and that maybe we should spend more effort on trying to foster a different attitude. But... I really just don’t see that happening. Not that that means we shouldn’t try, although I think that it may be like trying to ‘educate’ people to ‘not like’ junk food—it’s almost biologically impossible. People are going to be unconsciously driven towards what they’ve been ‘programmed’ to find attractive. And, couldn’t it be seen as being more humane to at least allow parents to free their children from certain unfortunate physical characteristics that those parents had foisted upon them and who found it rather difficult to endure? To me it seems rather unjust (perhaps even cruel) that we allow this forced passing on of characteristics which can often lead to whole lineages of peoples being prisoners of this genetic cage. And after all, it’s just a biological peculiarity.

I don't no that i can agree with classifying "passing on of characteristics" as cruel- I think the attitudes of people should be changed before we look at setting up a Gattica like society.

But what if the characteristics are cruel...?

Also, Gattica really blew as a movie... in my opinion.

Unless these characteristics impair the person (i'm not sure Characteristics can do that) then how are they cruel? it's the attitude of the people in society and their reactions to people that are cruel.

Also i agree that Gattica sucked, but it raised some interesting ideas, which pertain to this discussion!

Glenjamin wrote:it's the attitude of the people in society and their reactions to people that are cruel.

True. Good point. But haven’t you just described almost all subjective human experience? If you make it as vague as that, then anything is only dependant on people’s “attitude” and “reactions” e.g. food doesn’t taste good; it’s only peoples reaction to it. Murder isn’t wrong; it’s only how people perceive it.

Extreme examples, I know, but I use them because I don’t think you can just push it all aside by saying that it’s simply people’s attitudes. Everything is people’s attitudes, but that’s what our lives are.

I completely agree that people’s attitudes should be altered (but that’s just on a personal level). But then again, what are we proposing? To make it completely ‘uncruel’ wouldn’t we have to have people place absolutely no emphasis on physical appearance? Now, my overwhelming vanity aside, I don’t think I have much of a problem with that personally, but many people would. I think almost everyone takes a small amount of pleasure in trying to look good, and what-not, and I have no problem with that (I do it myself). Most people would probably feel that it’s actually quite a significant part of their life (significant only in the sense that it just adds to the small joys of everyday living). I wouldn’t necessarily want to take that away. And, the crux of argument: some people aren’t even afforded this small luxury, which can become progressively larger as time goes by.

So, in summing up, even if we could change people’s attitudes, would you really want to? I mean, I’m not sure we’re really appreciating what it would mean. You and I sit here and say "wouldn’t it be great if people didn’t focus on appearances". But then, we all enjoy indulging in such things: telling our girlfriends/wives that we find them physically attractive; the general lust felt at being with someone you find physically attractive etc.—everyone enjoys these. And, as cruel as it sounds, some people aren’t really allowed to experience this.

Removing people’s attitudes may probably have to remove those minor pleasurable things, which I don’t think people want to give up, and (possibly) shouldn’t have to.