This is just Confusing!

Mmm, I don’t know whether he’s increased the level of Christians—he may have, but not by a significant level, I think. There are certainly many non-Christians who simply won’t listen to what he’s saying just because they call it ‘offensive’ or ‘arrogant’ (that’s just the way people operate), and in that sense he’s been criticised (by the scientific profession and others) for his methods not being the most effective. But he’s not really that concerned with what’s effective; he’s more passionate about what’s true.

Then why doesn't he just read the bible? (yes i understand we're not going to agree on that one)

In the UK they reckon he's 'helped' many lapsed Christians step up and affirm their faith publicly and in a more real manner.

Yeah, “lapsed Christians.” Doesn’t really surprise me.

I'm all for Dawkins helping people back to church.

Uhuh.

I notice you always fail to mention what he's doing for the Atheists side.

This kinda goes back to that discussion we had about potential American Presidents not being allowed to admit to their absence of belief.

COLUMN: Anti-atheist prejudice widespread in America

Article wrote:Americans find atheists a particularly repugnant minority. According to Gallup, they are more disliked than any other major religious group, with the exception of Scientologists.

Research by Gallup also indicates the majority of Americans would not vote for a well-qualified atheistic presidential candidate. Even a gay candidate, the data suggest, would face less formidable discrimination.

Unfortunately the "data" isn't provided, but still it's quite an interesting article by an "English junior."

This might be an odd thought but... aren't the laws of the USA based on Christian thinking? if the system is based on that isn't a practitioner better at working within that system?

Based on Christian thinking...? And what are you basing that on? The fact that the founders happened to be Christian (some of them)? I don’t think that that counts for the laws being based on Christian thinking. Also, I’m no expert, but I believe that when they made the American Constitution (if we’re talking about it) that they explicitly tried to avoid any appeals to any particular religion’s ideas, or even mentioning of religion (except in the ‘freedom of religion’ thing).

A practitioner may be better at working within the system, agreed; although, they’re less able to accept changes to the system when the people call for it. (But, as stated, I don’t think America is “a Christian system,” whatever that might mean.)

You apart from the whole "one nation under God" that kicks off the whole constitution, or the fact that the seal is under girded by "in God we trust"... I think if you researched the founding tenets of the US, you'd find that Christian Orthodoxy was at the heart of their thinking...

Hmm, I think I mean the Constitution of the United States of America of 1787. The one that doesn’t mention “God” once. The one that starts “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, ...” The one that certainly doesn’t start with “one nation under God,” or mention it, ever. You might be referring to the Pledge of Allegiance, which is, obviously, just a pledge, most often recited in schools, and a pledge that was first written in 1892, more than a hundred years after the Constitution was. And, interestingly, here’s the original pledge:

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

Quite nice actually. Here’s what it is today:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The “under God” was not added until 1954, essentially because of the dubious link between atheism and communism, and communisms link with the cold war.

Article wrote:Half a century ago, at the height of anti-Communist fervor, Congress added the words ''under God'' to the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a petty attempt to link patriotism with religious piety, to distinguish us from the godless Soviets.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E04E1DA153EF934A15755C0A9649C8B63

Interestingly this is exactly where “In God we Trust” comes in as well, in one respect:

Article wrote:In 1956, the nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto [of the USA] with "In God we Trust."

[...]

The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts." It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units -- originally colonies and now states.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

Another reading of the original motto, "E pluribus unum": Latin for "Out of Many, One,"

Wow, I actually find that quite a moving motto.

But, “In God We Trust” had previously been around before—on coins/notes—but only after 1861:

Article wrote:The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861.

http://www.e-referencedesk.com/resources/state-motto/florida.html

Interestingly,

Article wrote: During the 1950's the federal government's references to God multiplied:
• "So help me God" was added as a suffix to the oaths of office for federal justices and judges. However, they are not compelled to recite the words. There has been a widespread belief that every president since George Washington has said these words during his inauguration. The belief appears to be without merit.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

Summary quotes:

Article wrote:On Sept. 17, 1787, after a long summer of argument and compromise, the Founders completed and signed what would become the U.S. Constitution. And despite popular misconception, it didn't include a word about the USA being a "Christian nation."

In fact, the Constitution doesn't mention Christianity, or God, at all. It is a secular document outlining the structure of what would become the new government of this nation.

Likewise, the First Amendment to the Constitution, which protects every individual's right to practice his or her own religion — bans government "establishment" or direct support of religion — makes no mention of Christianity.

Yet, 220 years later, an astonishing 55% of respondents to a poll released last week said they believe the Constitution "establishes a Christian nation."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/09/god-and-the-con.html

Article wrote:It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#god

After doing this brief ‘research’ I think I’ve found that the “founding tenets” had very little to do with Christian Orthodoxy, or any other religion. They had such ideals as ‘everyone created equal,’ etc. which you can’t really claim as Christian—it’s just basic equality—and even more so, it appears that most of the ‘founding fathers’ (Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Tom Paine, John Adams, George Washington and James Madison are the ones mentioned in the article reference below) could not really be called Christian (some quite opposed to it, not that it really matters), and at most you could call them deists, but probably only because ‘Atheism’ was then (still is?) a dirty word.

Article wrote: The Founding Fathers were not religious men, and they fought hard to erect, in Thomas Jefferson's words, "a wall of separation between church and state."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen

This has actually created in me a greater respect for the US (at least for the old US, the idea of the US). And now I feel terrible with thought of how those founding fathers, after all their work, would be writhing in their graves if they could see what’s happened to their baby.

Madison was assuredly a christian- he just didn't want the church to have massive power within the state... Adams was predominantly anti-catholic, but i think he was also against just accepting the divinity of Christ. I don't know much about the rest of them, but it's interesting that i was sucked in to the same unfounded belief!

Yeah, I’m curious to know how it all started. I reckon Bush junior had something to do with it. He always has something to do with it...

Wow, even though your post looked very tedious it was very interisting. 3 silver stars Andy.

"very tedious"? "silver stars"? You bastard...