I dunno. Drug Lab?

So, I was watching Boston Legal last night, and they were addressing a topic that I've had previously found interesting (that show's good at that). And here it is, students are taking things like Ritalin, Provigil, propanolol, amphetamines, etc. to improve their concentration and study performance. Is this 'brain doping' the same as regular 'athletic doping' or whatever it's called? Is it 'immoral', or is it barely distinguishable from taking the other drugs we already consume in large doses e.g. caffeine, nicotine and alcohol and possibly more?

Whoa.... new thread.

Well if it's not prescribed it's illegal.
But hey, if these kids want to screw themselves up with drugs then let them. It wouldn't happen in Trevtopia though.
I don't think caffeine or nicotine compare to prescription drugs in effectiveness. Caffeine might help you stay up to study longer but it doesn't help you concentrate during an exam (unless you are really sleepy from staying up longer to study...).

RITALIN:
Nervousness and insomnia are the most common adverse reactions but are usually controlled by reducing dosage and omitting the drug in the afternoon or evening. Other reactions include hypersensitivity (including skin rash, urticaria, fever, arthralgia, exfoliative dermatitis, erythema multiforme with histopathological findings of necrotizing vasculitis, and thrombocytopenic purpura); anorexia; nausea; dizzines; palpitations; headache; dyskinesia; drowsiness; blood pressure and pulse changes, both up and down; tachycardia; angina; cardiac arrhythmia; abdominal pain; weight loss during prolonged therapy. There have been rare reports of Tourette's syndrome. Toxic psychosis has been reported. Although a definite causal relationship has not been established, the following have been reported in patients taking this drug: leukopenia and/or anemia; a few instances of scalp hair loss. In children, loss of appetite, abdominal pain, weight loss during prolonged therapy, insomnia, and tachycardia may occur more frequently; however, any of the other adverse reactions listed above may also occur."

Drugs are bad, mmmmmkay?

Whoa... someone replied to the new thread.

I know, the forum is dying Trev. That is why you need to get in on the new website with Nick and I—this is the only contant I have with you Trev. And you can't leave me alone with these freaks!

Anyways, yeah, Ritalin is probably more at risk of doing some damage... maybe. I mean, a lot of those symptoms above, I believe are from overdoses? Here's a list of symptoms from overdosing on caffeine:

"In large amounts, and especially over extended periods of time, caffeine can lead to a condition known as caffeinism. Caffeinism usually combines caffeine dependency with a wide range of unpleasant physical and mental conditions including nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis, and heart palpitations. Furthermore, because caffeine increases the production of stomach acid, high usage over time can lead to peptic ulcers, erosive esophagitis, and gastroesophageal reflux disease.

There are four caffeine-induced psychiatric disorders recognized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition: caffeine intoxication, caffeine-induced anxiety disorder, caffeine-induced sleep disorder, and caffeine-related disorder not otherwise specified (NOS)."

Furthermore,

"An acute overdose of caffeine [...] can result in a state of central nervous system over-stimulation called caffeine intoxication [...]. The symptoms of caffeine intoxication are not unlike overdoses of other stimulants. It may include restlessness, nervousness, excitement, insomnia, flushing of the face, increased urination, gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, a rambling flow of thought and speech, irritability, irregular or rapid heart beat, and psychomotor agitation. In cases of much larger overdoses mania, depression, lapses in judgment, disorientation, disinhibition, delusions, hallucinations and psychosis may occur, and rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue) can be provoked."
[My bolding]

Even more so,

"In cases of extreme overdose, death can result."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

Sure it says that that would be after consuming 80 to 100 cups of coffee, and sure a lot of the effects above don't seem to be as serious as the Ritalin ones, but still, I can't help but think that the main (not only) reason coffee is more accepted is predominantly just due to its history, and simply how it's consumed.

Ritalin certainly has the potential to be abused (because people are stupid) and on wikipedia it was mentioning how people crush the pills up and then snort them, which gets you high. People always wanna get high, we can't stop that (except in Trevtopia, and if they're getting high by stupid means), but many people (a lot of professional scientists I think, like 40, 50, 60% or so, in America) have admitted to taking something like Ritalin throughout their career.

I wonder how dangerous crushing up caffeine pills and snorting/injecting them would be?

Andrew.C wrote:
I wonder how dangerous crushing up caffeine pills and snorting/injecting them would be?

One way to find out....

I am not going to learn ancient Hebrew.

I would be fine with people 'brain doping'. If we are looking at from the point of view that there is a drug/s that can improve your mental ability and has no side effects. I can't see how that would be a bad thing in anyway. When you bring in the inevitable side effect that these drugs have, I feel that between doctors/parents/and the individual themselves a decision could be made as to whether they take the mental enhancing drugs or not.

I think this make sense. If it doesn't I don't really care.

Twas' pondering.

I took an intelligence test and another test (was like a mix of an intelligence and a rational thinking/mechanical reasoning test) as part of my Army application.
Due to my unaccountable brilliance I can apply for anything from cook to pilot to engineer (well... if my school grades were high enough....).
Say I had taken drugs to increase my performance during these tests, I could find myself in a position that I wasn't intelligent or 'quick thinking' enough to handle (the tests were timed and you aren't meant to finish).

People could die! So think of the children!

Of course I could try to get around that by being permanently on drugs.

Yeah, that's definitely a good point. But, I think your point about being permanently on drugs could be a solution. I mean, is it so different from the fact that if I go to get a job now, wearing my 'performance enhancing equipment' (my glasses), and if I were to get the job based on my performance with the glasses, then if I was to remove them it would compromise my performance. I think they'd just say "Always wear your glasses!". The main difference here, obviously, is that being permenantly doped-up could potentially be harmful.

I don't know though, lots of jobs carry adverse health side-effects, which means you can usually only be employed in them for limited time, I think? And, of course, there has to be an analysis of the health effects, which, if not too serious, I don't see why they couldn't be allowed.

So, you can be a cook, pilot, or engineer? Sweet. Have you chosen? I recommend cook, as long as you remember to do Jujitsu training on the side, for the inevitable all-star team of terrorists that come to overrun your nuclear sub. Trevor Segal! Kick ass.

I am not going to be a cook.
Trying for Army Intelligence at the moment.

Although I will take up a martial art so that if shit goes down I can still be the star of the action movie in my head as I kick 7 kinds of shit out of people.

"Army Intelligence"? Hey, isn't that an oxymoro—yeah ok, that joke's been done before... but I got nothing else!

Hmmm, so, what's actually involved in Army Intelligence? Sounds kinda interesting.

Well, I didn't get into Army Intelligence Andy so I'm still not sure what they do but it sounded interesting....
I have been accepted as a Combat Engineer (sapper) assuming I pass the blood test.

Didn't get in? Too much intelligence? Yeah, I can see why they would have knocked you back then.

Combat Engineer? Holy hell, that sounds extreme. Does your training consist, in part, of playing Commandoes 2 online? Because if so, then give me a call, because I could totally get in on some of that.

Our Combat Engineers aren't as extreme as the name suggests.
Although I will be trained to be the 'demolitions guy' in a patrol my main roles will be road and airfield construction, bridge building, minefield clearance and demolition work.
It's a 4 year commitment but I'm going to look at possible transferring after a couple of years to either Intelligence Corp or go for officer training (that's what the interviewer suggested). If I can get in good enough shape over the 2 years then I may try for Commando. Then I can fulfill my Commandos 1 (I never had Commandos 2...) / Command and Conquer fantasies.

You are actually the sapper? That's awesome.

Can you be an officer commando? Or were they two different options that you were thinking of? That sounds pretty cool though. Keep us posted! (You know, if you want...)

One and then the other. Commando then when I'm too old to do that well I'd go for officer. That is all very dependent on how fit I get during my first 2 years though.

Thats just one idea. I may completely change my goals depending on my experiences.

Yes, I am actually the sapper.
"The Combat Engineer belongs to the Royal Australian Engineers (RAE) Corps. RAE soldiers are known as 'Sappers' and are responsible for assisting our own forces to move whilst also denying mobility to the enemy."
So whenever we are out at the movies, getting lunch or attacking a Nazi dam I can blow shit up for you.
Who do you want to be? We still need a Green Beret, Marine, Driver, Spy and Sniper.

What about the Diver? Wasn't he an aussie in the game as well? He was pretty cool, too.

Nah, I wouldn't be the Diver; I don't like the wet. I'd totally take the Sniper. How hard can that be? Do they do mail-order qualifications? What if I told them I had several hard years of Counter-strike training? Plus a little exposure to Ghost Recon, Quakes I, II & III, various Tribes series. Need I really go on?