Does Sonny and Cher still have that stupid show?

I doubt anyone expects it to be immediate- i would expect its the age old "we have to draw the line some where, or what's the next generation, or the one after that going to come up with?"

I agree that the line has to be drawn somewhere, I just don't think (as you know) the one we've drawn is very good.
Shouldn't we have some confidence in what future generations will decide what is right? Why would they be any less able to weigh and consider the situation than we are now? And why do we at this point in time get to decide what future generations should do? If their morals shift then shouldn't they be able to change their laws to match that?

Are you actaully saying, knowing what the people in australia and elsewhere are (i.e. stupid beyond belief) that we should have faith in their capacity to make rational decisions? Rational decisions, absolutely, its what people do best!

Also this argument is going a little stale. Its down to I think your wrong and you think i'm wrong. We are starting to justify our arguments based on belief, like your belief that it 'just won't happen, i can't stress this enough people'. You can't actually point to any positive proof that it won't. Not that i believe that it will, but i also believe that the government, any government should not pass a law that allows people to devalue life. That is a belief, not a profound statement of fact.

I wonder how different your beliefs would be if you were old and sick, suffering a slow and painful death as opposed to being young and healthy.

I have no doubt that they would change. And i have no doubt that in that pain riddled place, with my mind being constantly eaten and nibbled at by the madness of pain i would think differently. However, from the here and now, with my mind functioning at aroudn 95% capacity (just had KFC) I will say that i do not believe that the law should enable people to comit suicide.

KFC? I should really take the healthy part out of my last post.

Tom wrote:We are starting to justify our arguments based on belief.

I agree that it’s mainly belief. But hey, that’s what the GC’s is all about!

And fine, since you insist on ‘facts’ I just want to say these things (even though the topic may be stale). I’m not having a go at your beliefs about it, since I can understand your good intentions behind those beliefs, but it is my belief that this is a case of good intentions gone bad.

I did some further browsing (still the internet) and am now almost certain that suicide is not illegal in this country.
“In Australia, the law of suicide has been brought into line in all jurisdictions with English and Canadian law. Suicide is no longer an offence resulting, as it formerly did at common law, in forfeiture of property to the Crown. Nor is attempted suicide an offence.”
http://www.hcourt.gov.au/speeches/kirbyj/kirbyj_angelsdeath.htm

This was changed, it seems, as far back as 1961.
“Under English criminal law, the Suicide Act 1961 decriminalised the act of suicide so that those who failed in the attempt would no longer be prosecuted.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Act_1961

Interestingly, it is even suggested that the relative lateness of this decriminalization is “a likely result of the nature of English common law, rather than a reflection of actual public opinion and medico-legal practice.”
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119196057/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Then we have a look at what the actual punishment was under the old common law:
“suicide was a felony punishable by burial in the public highway with a stake driven through the body and forfeiture of all one's goods to the Crown.”
http://law.jrank.org/pages/2180/Suicide-Legal-Aspects.html

And here’s just another one:
“A criminal ordinance issued by Louis XIV in 1670 was far more severe in its punishment: the dead person's body was drawn through the streets, face down, and then hung or thrown on a garbage heap. Additionally, all of the person's property was confiscated.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_views_of_suicide

Needless to say, we’ve come a long way; the moral zeitgeist is maturing.
Now, euthanasia, under law, has been clearly distinguished from suicide AND assisted suicide.
“with euthanasia, the doctor takes your life by administering a lethal drug. With assisted suicide, you have to be able to physically carry out that final act on your own.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/12/60II/main540332.shtml

Assisted suicide is allowed in Switzerland, euthanasia is not. Assisted suicide AND euthanasia are legal in Holland and Belgium.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/12/60II/main540332.shtml

Switzerland, Holland, Belgium: these are hardly countries that you could argue have ‘lost their moral compass’ or ‘are in moral decay’ or whatever; they’re probably up there near the top of the European/World standard of living list. It just doesn’t add up to suggest that legalising suicide (which has already been done! So I’ll just move on to euthanasia) or legalising euthanasia will lead to this sort of decline, or that it even devalues life. If anything, I believe it’s ‘life affirming’.

Oh yeah, suicide is technically legal in this state. It doesn't mean that we wont try and stop you doing it. The law also says that if you try and self-harm then you're mentally 'disturbed', and you can be arrested for your own safety. Ergo, not technically illegal, but we will stop you doing it. That power is actually given to the public, the power to use resonable force to prevent a person committing suicide. Really, the only reason that it is illegal is that you can't be charged with 'attempted suicide' and thrown in jail, because it's fairly well recognised that you should be getting mental help.

But yes, it is illegal to aid in suicide. It's also illegal to survive a suicide pact with another person (counts as aiding suicide). So what we're really discussing, as I think Andy mentioned, is the decriminalisation of assisting in suicide.

Andy wrote:This was changed, it seems, as far back as 1961... snip...

Protip: We have our own laws in Australia... We don't need the English laws anymore. :-)

What you wanna see is Section 31A Crimes Act NSW 1900: Suicide and attempt to commit suicide

Also see Section 31C: Aiding suicide

And Section 574B: Prevention of Suicide

For great justice.

"Brought to you by Menin"

Sorry Simmo- you just had a sales pitch groove going on there.

Simmo! wrote:Protip: We have our own laws in Australia... We don't need the English laws anymore. :-)

Hmmm, good advice.

Simmo! wrote:So what we're really discussing [...] is the decriminalisation of assisting in suicide.

And euthanasia. Don't forget euthanasia.